"I'm not sure the major and independent record labels are really in the same business anymore. We both put out recorded music that people consume, but sometimes it seems that that's where the similarities end".
And in one quote Simon Wheeler from the Beggars Group provided the one conclusion to be drawn from last night's MusicTank Think Tank debate on digital rights management - when it comes to DRM and copy protection, the music industry is a long way from consensus.
Richard Gooch, Deputy Director Of Technology of the International Federation Of The Phonographic Industry was charged with the task of defending the major record companies' position in this space, in light of a statement from the National Consumer Council that accused them of "using the enforcement of intellectual property rights to curtail legitimate consumer freedoms".
"There are three ingredients to make digital music work," Gooch began, "content, promotion and paying customers. We have the former, especially here in the UK where a lot of hard work and risk taking by artists and labels has created a fantastic and large catalogue of music. The internet itself provides incredible new promotional tools - albeit many as yet untested. The tricky bit, is how to connect with the paying customers."
"If an artist or a label wants to give away or sell MP3s and they believe it is the right thing to do, then that's great. But in the mainstream that doesn't work - you need a different model. It's tricky, and it's taken time to find those models. But in iTunes and Napster and the other 200 legitimate download platforms you have models which are working. iTunes have sold some 850 million tracks, 600 million in the last year. People criticise digital rights management, and they say consumers dislike DRM, yet iTunes is a working and hugely popular music service that exists on the back of DRM."
"There is good DRM and bad DRM," Gooch continued, "to work, the technology has to be in the background, so it doesn't interfere, though at the same time we have to be completely transparent about what restrictions are in place. But services like iTunes, and Napster, are achieving just that".
Simon Wheeler, though, is not convinced. While not rejecting the concept of DRM, he, and others in the independent sector, reckon that the major labels are wrongly obsessed with "locking down" content, and "controlling" how consumers connect with their music - an obsession that is both unachievable and unnecessary.
Wheeler, "To say that the selling of unprotected MP3s cannot work in the mainstream is garbage. I know this because we're currently doing it. Our whole catalogue is available to buy as MP3. Has it hit our physical sales? No, if anything they are up. Of course it means some people can get our music for free off friends or P2P networks. But people will do that anyway - all DRMs can be hacked - the industry needs to stop worrying about the people who are chasing free music, and concentrate on the audience who are willing to pay, and want to pay for good content. But you aren't going to reach that audience while you're "locking things down".
Of course the major labels would probably argue, possibly rightly, that the independent sector enjoys a much more loyal albeit niche consumer base. Genuine music fans feel a real affinity with labels like those in the Beggars Group, and will continue to buy music from them, even when they could access it for free if they so wished. The average Britney or Westlife fan, the custom of which the majors rely on, may not be so loyal. Why shouldn't the majors use technology to protect their interests, especially when companies like Napster and Apple have created technologies that do just that but at the same time are seemingly popular with music fans.
"If people don't like a DRM, they'll vote with their feet," stressed Ted Shapiro of the Motion Picture Association, representing an industry facing its own DRM dilemmas. Backing up sentiments expressed by Gooch, he continued: "The major record companies, like the major film studios, have no interest in alienating their customers. Yes they'll make stupid decision along the way. SonyBMG, deliberately or not, made a stupid decision when they put the 'rootkit' DRM on their CDs. But they've learned their lesson, consumers have spoken, and they'll learn from that and move on. It's the same with other DRM".
That said, for me, consumers aren't so much the issue. While the National Consumer Council and other lobbying groups may, rightly or wrongly, protest about consumers' ethical rights in this domain, the major record companies probably won't lose too much custom, even when, as they sometimes do, they opt for the more foolish kinds of DRM or copy-protection. Consumers, while sometimes critical of the entertainment industry, have been very forgiving over the years when content owners have used technical developments to re-sell everyone the same stuff (many people have, after all, built at their own expense four identical record collections - one on vinyl, one on cassette, one on CD, one on MP3). For me the issue for the music business is the motives of the technology firms, an issue also raised at the Think Tank.
"When the big entertainment companies get into bed with big technology companies, it can be dangerous," Shapiro admitted. "It is tempting for big content companies to look to Microsoft or others for the complete solution. But in doing so they may turn those companies into gatekeepers, which is possibly risky. After all, Apple don't really care about music or film, they care about selling computers".
While Shapiro didn't develop that observation, concerns about the control the IT, and possibly telecommunications, sector may soon hold over the music industry were clearly held by many at the Think Tank, especially in the independent sector. Which for me is the strongest argument against DRM. If the major labels were to find a way of making a Beggars style model work for them tomorrow, so that all music could be sold in the platform-independent MP3 format, then issues around inter-operability and the controlling influences of technology firms would be drastically cut overnight. And the majors could divert the huge sums of money being spent on DRM solutions, and the legal lobbying and litigation required to protect those solutions, into making that Beggars style business model work.
Though, given the differences of opinion on show last night, I don't see that happening any time soon.
To read our feature on copy protection, including an interview with !K7's Horst Weidenmuller on his anti-DRM Respect The Music campaign, check http://www.cmumusicnetwork.co.uk/interviews